From The Archives: Peter Jordan – Cattle Mutilations Are Not Done By Aliens

I recently uncovered a rare interview in my cassette tape archives and present it here as a sort of bizarre Christmas/ Holiday present.

The circumstances surrounding this audio file are strange and perhaps a little disturbing. Peter Jordan appeared on Robert Larson’s old Cartoon Pleroma show July 30, 1998 to talk about his 20-year investigation into the cattle mutilation phenomenon centering around Dulce, New Mexico. Robert and I felt it was important to get Jordan’s story out on a commercial radio station and not the pirate station I was broadcasting from at the time.

In 1997, I read reprints of Jordan’s article from a 1982 Fortean Times which revealed his research using remote viewers in a study of mutilations. Just as many police departments have quietly used psychics to solve some cases, Jordan enlisted the help of four unnamed individuals to reveal helpful hints about the probable non-“alien” nature of unexplained cattle deaths. He (and other noted mutilation researchers such as the late Gabe Valdez) suspected long ago that some answers could probably be found in the world of biological warfare and surprisingly, the beef industry. Both involved possible coverups of pathogens which may have been accidentally released into the environment sometime in the early- to mid-1970s. There were also tributaries leading to drug companies and land grabs.

The disturbing part of this interview is that Jordan promised and wanted to come back on he show to discuss things further, but he called me a few days before his next appearance and said that he didn’t want to speak on the subject any more. He never answered any of my emails or phone calls again.

This interview remains one of the few instances where Peter Jordan shared his research so openly in a public forum. There is a great deal of information here that you will hear nowhere else. More info about Jordan and other sources that I published at the time can be seen at the Excluded Middle site. For more on the non-ET aspects of this subject, see the National Institute For Discovery Science findings on mutilations.

The audio quality starts off fair, but improves throughout the program. Sorry, but all of the contact info given out on this show is now defunct. Robert’s current show is Out The Rabbit Hole on Irvine (CA)’s station KUCI on Thursdays from 4-5PM PST.

Image: Fortean Times #38, 1982 with cover story by Peter Jordan.

This entry was posted in animal mutilations, Conspiracies, Government, parapsychology, Radio Misterioso exclusive. Bookmark the permalink.

19 Responses to From The Archives: Peter Jordan – Cattle Mutilations Are Not Done By Aliens

  1. Ward says:

    First of all Merry Christmas Greg.
    Thank you for this true gem of an interview. The audio wasn’t that bad at all, thanks for posting these excellent older interviews.

    This is the finest interview I’ve ever heard on cattle mutilations, period. The information is staggering, it’s to bad most of this has been lost in time but now with this interview hopefully people will begin to look into this again with this down to earth information. Between Peter Jordan and Gabe Valdez i think we have the answer to most not all of these cattle mutilations.

  2. Sagacious says:

    Merry Christmas.

    The interview was interesting and Jordan’s hunches are very plausible. In fact, his later reticence on the subject strongly suggests sinister, and terrestrial, forces at work. Gabe Valdez was also very tight lipped about his similar suspicions. By contrast, there’s no intimidation of those who put forward the aliens hypothesis.

    • Greg says:

      I’m not sure if ETHers haven’t been intimidated, but I would suspect that it’s not common. I would also suspect that the alien fans would say that was because earthly forces were trying to make us think that it really IS ET by intimidation.

      Gabe told me a lot of his suspicions before he died. I tend to agree with him and Peter.

  3. gene says:

    hello, is there a way to contact Greg?
    just hoping to find how he acquired some George Van Tassel audio’s of his channellings?
    thank you,

  4. vicki says:

    Happy Holidays Greg! I have just recently been listening to ‘paranormal radio’ programs online, and I think you are one of the best interviewers of all. I don’t know what it is exactly, but there is something about your voice…that just makes me feel happy…almost giddy! Almost like when you were with a best friend as a little child, ready to bust up laughing. I enjoy your programs so much! Thank you.vv

    • Greg says:


      Thank you for your kind words. I try to have fun and pass that feeling on to anyone who wants to listen. If it’s not fun, why do it??

  5. mark says:

    I’d just like everyone to know that we have had many ‘classic’ cattle mutiltations over here in Australia with cattle lifted in the air through yards where helicopters, etc could not go – laser like wounds and farmers seeing ufo ‘craft’, etc – so unless your chemical guys from the USA are having a working holiday over here someone else is taking them off.
    note: as well we have ‘crop circles’ with the little light balls (so doug and dave must be having a holiday as well).

    • Greg says:


      I don’t know how to explain your accounts except that perhaps whatever problem may be getting covered up here may have spread to your fine country. Has anyone seen them lifted in the air? Why is it that helicopters can’t go in certain yards? Laser-like wounds are not out of the realm of human ingenuity. UFO sightings may or may not be ultimately unidentified.

      I’d like to know more before I make up my mind that anything is truly anomalous. There are certainly very strange aspects to American mutilations that stretch the “humans doing it” explanation, but the majority of the data I think can be explained by humans with access to advanced technology and something important to hide. The headline on this show was the current working hypothesis of our guest. It does not make it the only one, but one that I believe should be carefully considered.

      • mark says:

        Hi Greg – regarding your questions – the two aspects 1) ufo activity & 2)animal mutilations go from the current time back 50 or more years and it’s not just in one spot – local farmers, the general public & Rescue Helicopter Pilots and Doctors in the whole of the Northern Rivers area of New South Wales have seen and reported UFO’s in the local media and these were definately not black helicopters.
        I have personally spoken to one farmer who has had his cattle mutlilated and had the ufo blow all the windows in his bedroom -the yard had a covered roof and the ‘carcass’ was carried inside a storeroom. It showed no signs of being hogtied. A local Police officer also confirmed quite a number of cases in their files.

        back to the black helicopters – I did happen to see black helicopters around our area back in 1995 BUT I have also seen a giant ‘ufo’ craft hovering over a paddock in our local area till it went into a ‘ripple’ effect and disappeared. A similar craft was nationally reported over here in Australia and eyewitnesses were interviewed on our top news shows.
        6 residents of the unit complex I was living in around the time I saw the black helicopter also witnessed ‘lights’ hovering over our residence and also we all were woken up one night by a whistling sound and we rushed outside at the same time to see a ‘ship’/lights shoot upwards.
        I listened again to the interview and all I can say from my own personal and others local experience is that ufo’s are performing mutilations here – I’d like to blame BIG BUSINESS and MILITARY for everything but unless they are doing it
        together which is highly possible THESE are not human

        • Haven’t had the chance to listen to this show yet –doing lot of the other stuff I don’t get to do much during my regular schedule 😉

          But I like to second what Mark said. Cattle mutilation is not an exclusive American phenomenon. Not even an Anglo-saxon phenomenon. Lots of reports coming from South America, from people who are not familiar with the classic UFO mythos.

          Like this report I read in a J.J. Benítez’s book, where an Indian woman from Peru observed a ‘dwarf’ (just like the typical Irish stereotype: small, pudgy, red hair and reddish cheeks) that was mutilating one her sheep. The woman attacked the dwarf, who had to escape by ‘floating away’ with some sort of jet-pack.

          So, as with the UFO phenomenon, I don’t think cattle mutes have a “one-size-fits-all” explanation.

          But that’s one of the problems with the insular nature of Ufology.

          • Greg says:


            I know that the phenomenon has visited other countries, and that the results are equally puzzling and disturbing, sometimes moreso.

            Was the account form Benitez’ book from the 1950s or ’60s, and how many accounts of this type are you aware of? The jet pack detail in particular makes me wonder about the year of the incident. I would be interested to find out if actual observed entities are involved in more than a couple of cases. That might be significant. There certainly haven’t been many, if at all here, save for one which was reported in UFO magazine in the 1990s, I believe. A cattle rancher in Arizona claimed to see two grey/ dwarf-type beings carrying a dead calf between them with little effort at all. I don’t know who or where this story came from, but it was the only one I ever recall hearing.

            Jordan was not the only researcher who seemed to favor the human explanation. In 2003, when Gabe Valdez showed me his documented evidence of case after case of man-made artifacts turning up at mutilation sites, I seriously started to question the UFO explanation for all of the anomalous deaths of livestock. He should know as he examined hundreds of mutilations over decades of law enforcement and private work. I just wanted to repeat this fact as the basis for my serious look at non-UFO explanations.

        • Greg says:


          I have never said that the final answer to the mutilation phenomenon was answered conclusively by anyone. There are strange aspects to it that are hard to explain with conventional methods, technology, and even logic. That does not mean that we will not be able to do so in the future. The point of posting this interview was to present a differing point of view to the standard “alien” explanation that is almost always put forward with no real way to back it up except “we can’t explain it in any other way.” I was actually featured in the film Fields Of Fear, directed by my friend Paul Kimball which examined the mutilation phenomenon in Canada. The retired farmer who was profiled came to the conclusion that the only explanation that made sense in light of all his data could not traced completely to human activity, at least as the public understands it. He left the final explanation open. I try to do the same.

          I would be interested to have you on the show to talk about these Australian cases, if you are willing.



          • I just think that what we have to be mindful here is not making overall generalizations. Gabe Valdez & Peter Jordan’s research and conclusion that the cattle mutilations reported in the United States’ southwest in the 60s & 70s were man-made is very likely to be true; but we shouldn’t extrapolate it to *all* cattle mutilation cases in other parts of the world.

            Re. Benitez’s book: I think it was one of the latest, “The Man who Whispered to the Ummites”, but the case was older –maybe the 1960s? not sure really, gotta re-read the book to refresh my memory.

            PS: Mike Clelland reported a recent mute near his home in Idaho. It’s interesting to note how the local authorities regard them as the work of Satanic cults.

  6. JT says:

    Excellent interview, a piece of history that seems just as relevant today as it must have been at the time. All the military-industrial crud that keeps coming out since only enforce his opinion. And the phone calls referenced (threats from a script with a funny accent) also sound a bit like the MIBs. Thanks!

    Oh, and Greg, any chance of posting those Karla Turner interviews the next break? Or even the Dean Radin one, one of these days? The KT interview clips linked at excluded middle are off the grid….

    • Greg says:


      Thanks for the compliments. Mark and RPJ have made some valid points as well. I asked Mark if he would like to come on the show and talk about the Australian mutilations, but no answer yet.

      I’ll post the Turner interview next time I have no guest (which should be within the next couple of weeks.)

  7. Kandinsky says:

    What a classic show; I enjoyed it a lot and especially in the context of Gabe Valdez’ last interview.

    Something pretty dark was operating and the legacy remains shadowy and hard to define. Whatever motivations and agendas were in play, it’s suggestive of something more significant than the chitter-chatter about whether aliens are good or bad.

    We’ve probably all speculated privately on the possible reasons behind all this showmanship and deception. Public, private or national interest? Who can say? We’ll probably never know the answers although the suspicion remains of something with high-stakes and a daunting level of organisation.

    Chances are it’s more suited to an intrepid investigative journalist with balls of steel rather than some alien-chasing ufologists? It was enough for Valdez to duck and cover and maybe an example that some subjects are better left alone.

    That aside, Jordan’s remarks about ufology and the paranormal not being linear struck a chord. Equal to ‘off on tangents,’ it could be described as entering a maze. We set off with a little subject knowledge and a few ideas and need to keep educating ourselves to progress. All the ‘small pieces’ amount to nothing when it comes to forming a conclusion.

    I just noticed this entire post could be summarised as ‘fucking quicksand. Stay out!’

    • Greg says:


      Strangely, I proposed cattle mutilation book along the lines of Gabe’s and others’ suggestions and research, but no publisher was interested. I still can’t figure out why.

      Tim Binnall and I talked about the non-linear nature of the paranormal on his year in review show, which will be posted soon.

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