David Perkins – The Long View of Mutilations

David Perkins (AKA “Izzy”) is known to many as Chris O’Brien’s longtime research partner (and “mentor” as O’Brien also refers to him.) Perkins began his interest in the cattle and livestock mutilation mystery from the beginnings of the phenomenon (ca. 1975) in southern Colorado. In the over 40 years he has looked at this strange and at times horrifying issue, he has not come to any hard conclusions about what is going on, although he does have specific ideas about a nexus of all the issues connecting the disparate aspects of this puzzling conundrum.

At first, he thought it was some government program, because of all the helicopters that kept turning up in reports. He has never really considered the UFO/ alien explanation, since the facts he uncovered proved it was too narrow. During the program, we discussed  the concept of a “memeplex,” which is a group of ideas and beliefs that support and play off each other, and which can increase our understanding of how the problem has been compounded by weak explanations and an eagerness to reach a conclusion.

Perkins also considers the mutilation mystery as an example of an “ideoplastic” problem as he believes that it responds to expectations, culture, and researcher bias. He believes an  important path towards understanding can be achieved by thinking of it as a manifestation of “unrecognized forces of nature,” which combine in a way that indicates some sort of directed, conscious purpose that is as yet inscrutable to humans. He compares it to the Gaia hypothesis, in a way that makes Nature itself an active participant, as if we are being sent an undeniable message about how we treat and use domestic animals, and our complicity in the degradation of the environment.

We also talked about how the study of animal mutilations has driven many researchers off the deep end or forced them out of the field altogether, although Perkins concludes that his experience has been “one of the greatest educational experiences I could ever imagine.”

David contributed one of his own musical compositions for the outro music, recorded only two days before our interview, which took place on his backyard patio in Santa Fe, New Mexico.

Photo: Perkins struggles with the ancient concept of a pay phone on a Santa Fe street corner.


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10 Responses to David Perkins – The Long View of Mutilations

  1. Adam says:

    Wow! What a wonderfully inspiring conversation.
    AND the song was a gift!

    • David Perkins says:

      Hey Adam! Thanks for the kind words on my “In a Perfect World” song. Glad you saw it as a “gift”. It certainly wasn’t over-produced. It was missing the sweet harmonies of my singing partner Betsy Rich. I played it on one take into a little SONY recorder after a long day at the Dulce Symposium. Anyway you get the idea. Greg and I are talking about another interview to flesh out some of the ideas we were tossing around the first time around. Stay tuned.

  2. I’m so happy you two were able to finally meet and that you recorded a couple of fascinating hours w/ David Perkins aka “Izzy Zane” FYI: The “IZ” is extremely shy and retiring when it comes to radio shows/podcasts and public pronouncements. In 9 years I think I was only able to corral him twice to be a guest on the Paracast! Excellent catch Greg!

    • Greg says:

      Thank you Chris, and thanks for putting us in touch. We had a very valuable talk and visit, thanks to you.

  3. Vinnie says:

    I have listened to every episode of Radio Misterioso over the past few years, and I mean gone through the archive and listened to every episode available, and this is instantly one of my favorite episodes you’ve ever put out. What a wonderful guest, fantastic conversation, fascinating concepts discussed, it’s given me even more to think about/chew on and to go out and look more into.

    • Greg says:

      Thank you Vinnie, I really liked it too. You never know what’s going to click with people. I have fun and learn something on every show. That’s why I keep doing it.

    • Izzy’s “Evolutionary Imperative” is easily one of the most creative analytical concepts found in ufology today. Combine this insight w/ an active, conscious Gaian agenda and suddenly Vallee’s “cultural thermostat” and McKenna’s “control mechanism” makes perfect sense. I’ve been saying for years that the reductionist, overly simplistic ETH cannot begin to explain UFOs, elementals and various other manifestations such as abductions and unexplained livestock ‘mutilations.’ Perkins has been extremely instrumental in my thinking and this show is a perfect introduction into the realm of alternative thinking and analysis.

  4. Corvinus says:

    Very interesting to hear some ideas that haven’t been discussed in a while like the Gaia hypothesis and the fact that the planet itself may have an intelligence of sorts. Lyall Watson’s “Beyond super nature” was one of the first para-science books in my collection as a kid – it came right out of the KMart bargain books bin many moons ago and charged up my imagination and sense of wonder. Nice reminder back to Watson’s influence on my own interests and thinking. Thanks Greg.

  5. I’m very interested in not contributing to the “memeplex”, and that’s why we – on my show – so far have stuck to investigating subjects that don’t currently have a lot of momentum behind them – and so we’ve stayed away from things like Bigfoot and UFOs. I like Greg’s show for his coming at things at unpredictable angles.

    Hopefully we will be releasing a definitive look at spiritualism, as the birth of the movement took place in my neck of the woods and we may have access to the places the original séances were conducted by the Fox Sisters. Some of our episodes are obvious attempts to get at the truth through humor, but in the case of spiritualism I’m talking to people who live in the homes in the Corn Hill district of the city to see about filming in their homes. It’s not easy to work with these homeowners, but conducting a séance in a room where the Fox Sisters did as well is something I can’t believe no one has done already. The homeowners didn’t seem aware of anyone doing so.

  6. VC says:

    I’ve followed the cattle mutilation BS over the decades. People like Linda Moulton Howe have caused freakishly insanely harm to make this ET mutilation concept a mental illness and belief system. NO WHERE has there ever been proof documented that ET was ever involved. This “mutilation concept” is strictly man made with also the odd phenomena of natural events.

    Gabe Valdez KNEW “black ops” off Kirkland and elsewhere may have been involved UNLESS someone else was planting evidence to implicate these shadow-ops.

    There’s no doubt “black ops” connected to government or unknown groups would be interested in sampling for nuclear and bio-hazards. Plus, there is the very real threat of Nature Sourced Brain Diseases [and other disease potentials including [now] man made GMO’s and experiments], for example natural Mad Cow’s or unknown man made gut microbiome alterations, that are known to be able to be transmitted to humans from animal sources.

    It’s shameful that Linda Moulton Howe and anyone else of her insane ilk kind uses ET “to cover” for the real human caused damage and the real evil being done to Nature, our environment and animal life, and ourselves.

    Skinwalker Ranch is nothing more than a symbol of the real mental illness running through people’s belief systems [the paranormal] to justify their very sick minds unable to face reality that it is Humans doing all this harm. They are “the problem” of insanity and stupidity and control freaks running their madness over anyone dumb or naive enough to believe. Skinwalker Ranch is nothing more than Psychological Operations by those that have been part of propagating its lies. The guilty! So is George K. and Bigelow and ALL those associated with this lunacy! Some of them are your friends that need to be confronted and called out.

    This is “the curse” of evil enacted by shameful egos and falsehoods.

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