The Lost Bill Moore Interviews 2: The Road to Roswell

Bill Moore has become a legendary figure in the history of UFO research. I was lucky to know and call him a friend almost 20 years. He was the author of two benchmark books that all of our listeners should have read by now: The Philadelphia Experiment (1979) and The Roswell Incident (1980.)  All subsequent Roswell books, festivals, etc would not exist today if Moore, Stan Friedman, and Charles Berlitz had not done the original research and writing, even if no one seems to want to acknowledge this fact.

This was the last interview he gave before leaving public life entirely and moving back to the East Coast in 2006.

After telling me he would be late, Bill arrived far earlier than expected and we launched into a discussion of the Alexander Litivenko polonium poisoning case. We were soon discussing his first contacts with the Air Force Office of Special Investigations, which occurred in 1980 during book tours for Roswell. Moore corrected a misstatement that researcher Jerome Clark made about this period.

We then discussed a little-known incident involving a breach of Air Force base security in which Moore was involved with his research partner Jamie Shandera, which then led to some discussion about the history and methods of counterintelligence.

Moore recalled his first trips out to New Mexico to interview Roswell witnesses: He said that ten primary witnesses all said that they’d handled parts of a flying saucer, or at least something unearthly. He also recalled with some pain how his co-author Charles Berlitz changed and sensationalized Moore’s reports and data as he worked them into the manuscript.

We changed subjects and talked about possible occult elements in the Wizard of Oz, and humorous names Bill had come across in his research. Walter revealed that the son of Larry Fine (of Three Stooges fame) was an Air Force OSI agent. Walter also described (as much as he legally could) the history of Russian intelligence in the closed files of the FBI, which he saw as an agent. The balance of the show was filled with a discussion of other mysteries and a bit on Moore’s research and writing about on the origins of the Mormon faith.

As with many shows here, this was much more of a fun conversation than a strict interview, since I would never force Bill into any formalized discussion of subjects that most researchers would prefer. Nevertheless, there is much here for the seasoned UFO veteran to gain, if they will take the time to listen carefully.

The interview was recorded on December 10th of 2006.

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12 Responses to The Lost Bill Moore Interviews 2: The Road to Roswell

  1. Kandinsky says:

    Hiya Greg, as far as I know, I’ve listened to all of your other Moore interviews and look forward to hearing this one too. It’d be great if he’d release a truthful auto-biography of his years in the business. As far as I’m concerned, Berlitz was an adept at forming myths and might well have influenced some of Moore’s apparent myth-making in the years to follow. In that sense, his recollections of what Berlitz was like could be interesting.

    I know you’ve got a high opinion of Moore and, as you’ve met him and I haven’t, he’s probably earned it during all those years of communication. Still, whenever I hear his interviews , there’s a strong suspicion that he’s been central to a lot of the myth-making that polluted the so-called ‘field’ in the 80s.

    This is why I enjoy hearing his views and accounts. Now and then, it’s like he shows his hand, but it’s rarely enough to be certain and always open to interpretation.

    It seems he’s off the radar to all but family and close friends. If he’d write that book and *possibly* show his hand…well, who knows?!

    • Greg says:

      I don’t think I’ll ever hear from Bill again. He’s stopped answering my emails and calls. I don’t know what that means. Probably that he wants nothing whatsoever to do with the paranormal field any more. It makes me sad, but that appears to be his choice.

      I also think that perhaps people are way too quick to point fingers at him because he admitted to working with the government on some level, while others who most certainly did to some extent or another have never said anything. Seeing what happened to Moore, they probably never will. The UFO field does perfectly well at creating its own diisinfo. It always has and always will.

  2. Ward says:

    oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy!!!! Just a little bit into the interview Greg and this is a total keeper. I LOL when Bill mentioned the jumping over the fence thing with Jamie. I would love to talk to both of those guys, but they themselves are part of the mythology of ufology. Hey did i just make that up? Must of been influenced by Kandinsky’s “myth-making” comment but it does have a nice rhyme to it…Mythology of Ufology.

    Anyways thanks for posting this Greg, I’m sure this will be the first one many listens to this show.

  3. fd says:

    Thank you for this Greg.

    Re Kandisky’s point about Moore being “central to a lot of the myth-making that polluted the so-called ‘field’ in the 80s” — not only do I agree with the statement but I doubt anyone who has read and learned about the whole Moore disinformation affair would disagree with that conclusion.

    The only question that remains, at least to me, is whether Moore participated in the disinformation campaign in some other capacity and with a different intent than what he publicly admitted to.

    And what Moore (and others) disseminated, or helped disseminate, in the 80s still pollutes the UFO ‘field’ today. In fact, I don’t think the field ever recovered. The field became increasingly polarized, increasingly easy to ridicule and dismiss, and the waters were muddied to a point that it’s now practically impossible to determine the veracity and accuracy of any information or story to a satisfying degree.

    And I’m sure all of this makes Doty, and others, whose job was to do that, very proud of their work.

    • Greg says:

      I don’t think that Moore helped to disseminate any disinfo except the document he gave to Paul Bennewitz, which he told him to take with a grain of salt. If he was knowingly involved with any other schemes, I tend to think that people like John Lear, Bill Cooper, Bill English, etc. were far more skilled at spreading wild stories and beliefs than Moore ever was. I also think that they were taken in my rumors, wish-fulfillment, and most likely disinfo from government and private entities that we will never know about.

      • fd says:

        Thanks for replying Greg. I agree with you that Lear & Co. “were far more skilled at spreading wild stories” than Moore — emphasis in spreading wild stories. And that’s why I worry more about Moore’s purpose and the information he presented.

        In every interview I have listened to Moore comes across as a very intelligent, knowledgeable and serious person. On the other hand, John Lear and the others you mention, in my opinion, are clearly and simply attention seekers and/or distractions for the gullible.

        My point is that if I was to set up a serious disinformation operation I would use people like Moore not Lear or Cooper.

        I enjoy listening to Bill Moore, I have listened to all his interviews on RM, and I take a similar stance to yours when it comes to this topic — even if it’s disinformation, there’s some core truth there to be discovered, or at least, hopefully learn how to more effectively identify some disinformation.

        I didn’t meant to say I was sure Moore was an intelligence officer and he knowingly and purposely deceived people. I’m just saying it’s a possibility we can’t dismiss.

        Unlike you I never met Moore, and I generally agree with your positions and I trust your judgement, so I give deference to your opinion on this.

  4. A bit of a synchronistic element in this podcast, seen how you mentioned Chris Lambright and that he contacted you, and last week he & Ray Stanford were the guests at The Paracast.

    Lambright was presenting his book X Descending, which seems to deal with both Ray and Bennewitz, since (according to Lambright) a video taken by Ray shows after analysis many similarities to some photographs taken by Bennewitz of UFOs over the Manzano Weapons Storage Area –so it would be fair to say the book doesn’t concur with Moore’s hypothesis that the lights were the taillights of jeeps as the circled the mountain during their night rounds.

    Unfortunately much of the discussion at the Paracast forum diverted on the general frustration –which I share– over Stanford’s refusal to show his allegedly fantastic photographic and film evidence he’s talked about on numerous occasions, until he finally submits his work for a scientific peer-reviewed journal.

    The stuff about Bennewitz was overlooked by the forum members, so I would like to know if you’ve had the chance to listen to the interview and if so what you thought of it.

    • Greg says:

      I don’t know about Ray. I really would like to see his films myself, but I need to travel to the East coast to do it. If his films compare favorably with what Bennewitz was seing, perhaps that can also mean that they were witnessing the same or similar (human) technology. I don’t know. That’s just a guess. It’s a little selfish, but I find it hard to listen to other paranormal shows, because I keep waiting for them to get to the points I want covered!

      • I recently engaged in a very lively discussion re. a 2-part essay which was published by Jason Horsley –a.k.a. Aeolus Kephas– at Reality Sandwich, which take a very hard skeptic look at Whitley Strieber and his many claims about the Visitors over the years.

        During this show with Moore you said something very apropos to that other debate IMO, when you compared Edgar Mitchell with Buzz Aldrin: two very intelligent and driven individuals who had the chance to have an extraordinary experience, but that changed them in rather dramatic (and DIFFERENT) ways. Maybe you could say the same of Strieber and other people who seem more… at peace with their other-worldly contact –say, Leo Sprinkle for instance.

        It might not be the experience per se, but what you bring to the table as an individual prior to it.

        Maybe something similar happens with Stanford and his many years involved in the UFO world, first as a channeler of Space Brothers, and now as a hard-science investigator trying to prove UFOs exist from a purely materialist approach.

        PS: I had even dared to suggest that Ray should consider making his research more public via alternative outlets like Walter’s Alternative Universe iConference. Something I gather will never happen because (a) Ray might be worried about his material get disseminated over the Internet without his control; and (b) because Walter angered him last time he was at Radio Misterioso 😉

    • [Correction]: Ray doesn’t have videos. He has movie films which allegedly show UFO sufficiently close to perceive them as structured craft.

  5. Mr A says:


    I have looked into what the symbols on the panel they found. I think it is an operating instruction panel to the aircraft they found at the 1945 incident. Most symbols seem easy to understand once you get that they are instructions to fly the craft. I’d imagine below this panel or behind it would have been the buttons to press to move the craft about.

    Any thoughts?

    Mr A

  6. Steve-C says:

    Greg, I’m sorry to hear that you think you will never hear from Bill Moore again. It sounded from all the shows that the two of you had a real friendship. I loved hearing all the banter between the two of you because of the vast knowledge you both have. By the way, any chance you have anymore old shows you haven’t posted yet? I need my RM fix

    thanks, steve c.

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