I have put in a request at Secret Service headquarters in DC for an archive search on Etta Place and Longabaugh, among associated others, and am still awaiting response. I will further comments on this n my next scheduled interview. Chris O’Brien has contacted me about going on his show and he’s presently reading the book.

http://tsutpen.blogspot.com/2013/05/scenes-from-wild-west-14.html

Tua minima culpa – pax tecum

Thank you for your patience, your time, and your research. All are appreciated.

And I hate conversing in forums because if you don’t put a hundred it really comes across as being pissed off, LOL

Anyway, I think if you read the book, you’ll understand better why I (and others) stand by my translation.

Anyway, read the book. I made my statements there. The only reason I even respond here to the degree that I do is because a complete disregard would imply to some, unfortunately, that you have the trumping point (Which you don’t).

The book presents what I think based on my investigation, analysis and consulting someone more knowledgeable on German than I (who himself consulted native speakers) . The bottom line is that you either agree or you don’t but that disagreement doesn’t change my position at all. I have reasons why I’m confident and what’s in the book alone is sufficient enough for me to go out on that limb.

Here’s the deal: It’s nice that you express your opinions but opinions they remain. Your points do not in any way conclusively disprove my propositions. My proposed translation stands as valid as any, more valid than some, actually.

I’m familiar with transliteration, but if you’ll endure a couple more jabs from Occam’s Penknife:

Since Dellschau wrote in both German and English, why do you think he was using a transliterated acronym? Did he transliterate elsewhere in his notes?

Unt Zee Doytch sprecke, ya? So if you think the Y was a transliteration, wouldn’t a more obvious candidate for the final ‘ZA’ be ‘Zonora Aero,’ given that [ word-initial S ] followed by a vowel is pronounced ‘Z’ in German?

Sorry for the insistence, but for me Design is a big issue. After all, I *am* a designer

And one of the things I’m also interested in is how people perceive things, and how limited language is when describing what we’ve seen to a third party –trying to describe a design project to a client over the telephone is a REAL bitch!

Allow me to make use of another example: We can take a look at woodcuts & illustrations made in the XVIth & XVIIth century, of the animals European explorers were encountering in their travels to the Indies & the Americas. With our XXIst century understanding & familiarity of say, a giraffe, we look at early illustrations of a giraffe & we could laugh at how inaccurately those ancient artists rendered it.

But the thing is that –like Greg is fond of saying in the show– we humans have all these little mental boxes that have been created by our previous experiences, and we catalog new experiences according to our mental boxes. If those early explorers tried to describe a giraffe, they would necessarily have to use a familiar animal as a point of reference, and go like “well, we found this animal that looks like a horse, but with a really long neck…”

So imagine trying to describe what a gargoyle is to an 8-year-old child. You end up with a weird mix of different elements that will only become unified once the child is shown an actual picture of a gargoyle. From then on, the gargoyle can be used as a point of reference –quite useful if you want to describe say, a Chupacabras

So, my point is, that when we encounter something that falls completely outside our mental frame of references, we nevertheless will try to make sense of it according to our cultural baggage –i.e. what we already know

Getting back to the airships of 1897, I read the accounts & look to the newspaper illustrations or the funky watercolors made by Dellschau, and what comes to my mind is: “how much of this is an accurate description of a real event, and how much is a biased interpretation based on the witness’ cultural points of reference?”

NJMZa is not pronunced “nimza”

NYMZA has BEEN pronounced “nimza” all these years. I argue Dellschau likely intended the pronunciation to be “nYIMza”

Dellschau was a German immigrant attempting to communicate a name with transliteration (not translation, transliteration), which means he intended to communicate the proper pronunciation. In his native tongue, pronunciation of his ‘J’ was like our ‘Y’ specifically the ‘yih’. Therefore, Dellschau transliterated the NJMZa to NYMZA and not NIMZA because proper pronunciation was “nyimza” not “nimza” and he thought using a Y would communicate that better. Why he didn’t spell it “NYIMZA” I can’t satisfactorily explain (to you), I can only work with what he provided. I suggest that the spelling was his choice and we have to live with it. Regardless, my translation of NYMZA is more solid than other previous attempts.

You seem to really be hung up on design. You ask why the “steampunk” design — it was the Victorian Era, after all. Duh. Again, with this design issue, you’re judging a 19th Century issue with 21st Century attitude.

I’ll make it easy for you: Go straight to dismissal of what I’ve proposed. It sincerely won’t hurt my feelings nor make me doubt myself. That way you don’t have to waste time debating or trying to reconcile why 19th Century guys might have done things in a 19th Century context.

But then… why the need of the steam-punk look in their craft? Why did they craft look as if they could be constructed with XIXth century technology?

Is this an indication of their own limitations in available resources, or an indication of the limitation in the witnesses’ imagination?

AND, as I explain in the book (and thought I did in the interview, as well, maybe I didn’t) transLITERation is when you come up with a spelling that communicates PRONUNCIATION from one language to another, especially when the original language either has a completely different alphabet or uses the same alphabet in a different manner. Case in point: the German ‘J’ being pronounced like the English ‘Y’.

Therefore ‘NYMZA’ is a transLITERation for NJMZa.

Nice try, but what I’ve done is solid and passes the muster with German language, and my transliteration explanation is also solid. I’m confident with it.

So THAT’s why a ‘J’ is not ‘perfectly good’ in this instance. Your argument’s flaw

Sure, invoking a Breakaway civilization lets you ascribe them any number of significant advancements, but the main problem here is that the UFO phenomenon always seems to be just a little more advanced than current standard technology. So now that’s why everybody is explaining away UFO sightings as possible stealth craft or even military drones, the same way in the XIXth century journalists were pondering whether a fan of Jules Verne was following the instructions of his books a little too literally

Because I don’t like to debate, I present the context of the lore and circumstances that exist and show where my case resonates. I would say that your position about where technology was at is based on accepted documented history, i.e. the state of battery technology. The whole supposition of a breakaway civilization is that there was something going on that was kept from documented accepted history, so it’s sort of pointless to debate the issue in those dogmatic terms, in my opinion. That’s why I don’t do it. This is mainly because I take a ‘consider it or don’t’ philosophy regarding my work.

No reason yet to consider Orsic in what I’ve found.

I don’t have a problem with the airships of 1897 being completely terrestrial in origin, but at the same time we should have in mind how the UFO phenomenon seems to ‘project’ the expectations of a given culture. In the Middle Ages the flying boats people saw were equipped with sails & had to rely on anchors (!) and sometimes those got stuck on the towers of churches.

Furthermore, it was not only a matter of finding the key to antigravity & Voilá: you’ve got yourself an Aero! Those mysterious aircraft were capable of projecting powerful beams of light during a considerable amount of time, and electric batteries had just been invented at the beginning of the XIXth century. Even now we’re facing a future ‘brickwall’ with the development of new batteries for our modern gadgets, where we might not be able to follow the same level of miniaturization that is so easy to achieve with microprocessors. That’s why the electric car has not become a reality.

So there had to be quite a number of critical discoveries the ‘Breakaway civilization’ needed to do in order to be so far ahead by the 1890s –unless the Breakaway civilization had been operating centuries before –so now I’m reminded of the famous ‘Baghdad battery’…

This is the same guy involved in the infamous ‘Carlos’ affair, when Randi promoted him as a real psychic, supposedly to demonstrate the gullibility of TV newsmen. Unfortunately for ‘Carlos’ & Randi, the Aussies refused to play ball

Finally, if anyone is interested to learn more about the Million Dollar Challenge, I would encourage you to read the essay penned by my friend Greg Taylor.

Before I became involved with The Daily Grail I didn’t care much about Randi & the modern skeptic movement. But over the years I’ve witnessed how biased & deceptive these individuals can be, and how they tend to keep Randi in such a high esteem, even though he occasionally makes embarrassing statements, like his winks to Social Darwinism.

Lately I tried to maintain cordial relationships with ‘the other side’, but I soon discovered that if you keep pressing their buttons, the so-called ‘critical thinkers’ will eventually show their fundamentalist refusal to entertain the possibility that you might be right & they’re not.

As for Klass being behind the MJ-12 forgery: it’s in an interesting idea, and it certainly resonates with Stan Friedman’s suspicions that Klass was involved with the CIA as a disinformant, but my caveat is that, as you Greg expressed during the interview, skeptics eventually reveal the hoax, otherwise there’s no point for the deception*. So Klass would have eventually revealed the authorship in order to embarrass Moore & the UFOlogical community; even if he feared some legal consequences, he would have at least left some death bed confession or something.

(*) I know that was not the case with Jim Moseley & Gray Barker when they duped Adamsky though

Refreshing interview, would love to hear more from Tim, he’s a veteran in the field and certainly has done real honest to goodness research.
Tim’s insight into Randi was very illuminating, what a forked tongue that guy has. The Phil Klass theory is very interesting, that the two signatures on the supposed MJ-12 papers has ALWAYS bothered me, it seemed like an obvious blatant attempt to show the hoaxing, but perhaps it was a latent trap that was put there to say “gotcha” as Tim suggests, who knows.

Any time an interview makes me think its valuable, when it happens in this field its invigorating and encouraging, thanks again for the great show,

Ward

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUqVrH4luXc

YEP! We missed Greg and his talks! It makes my day when he has a new show up!

Laurence

So for me it’s not really the individual show (though your music episodes and Emenegger interviews are always brilliant); it is the accumulation of the intersection of your personality, the guests and probing of the subject matter that is just so entertaining.

http://www.theparacast.com/forum/threads/greg-bishop-back-to-dmr.12842/#post-158384

Please continue to release your wonderful, eclectic material.

Welcome back, Radio Misterioso! Keep on spreading the weirdness!

I’d still like to try one in the Integratron like you suggested or some other resonant chamber.

Last year I had the opportunity to travel to the States to the Paradigm Symposium, which my friends Micah Hanks & Scotty Roberts organized in Minneapolis (they’re repeating next year, and I encourage EVERYONE to go!) and in that trip the most incredible person I had the chance to meet —well, aside from Micah & the incomparable Nick Redfern that is — was Dr. John Ward, an Egyptologist who kept blowing my mind during the whole event with his amazing stories.

One of my favorites was about how he requested access to the King’s chamber in the Great Pyramid during a solstice or something; there was going to be some sort of once-in-a-lifetime alignment & the man wanted to have the chance to spend a few hours all alone inside the rock chamber to see if anything happened —you can see this is NOT your typical academician…

Well, the authorities denied him the permit, on account on that *someone else* had already booked the chamber already! They could offer him to stay in the chamber after this mysterious individual finished, and Ward reluctantly accepted.

So the day comes and he goes to the pyramid, and the guards tell him to wait until the other guy comes down —he wasn’t even allowed to see who this other person was, probably to protect this VIP’s identity— and the finally they give him the signal to go up. So John enters the King’s chamber and lies down inside the coffin, and after a few minutes of absolute silence & darkness he hears something, like the ruffle of feet on the floor. At firsts he dismisses it as figments of his imagination, but the noise persists and he begins to be a little creeped out by it —after all, he was supposed to be all alone inside this millenarian stone structure, under thousands of tonnes of rock, right?

So John grabs his lighter to see what’s going on, and what he saw was utterly baffling: in there with him was a pair of geishas & a man wearing a kimono, performing some kind of ceremony!

After he recovered his wits John rushes out of the chamber & managed to see just who this mysterious personage that had rented the pyramid before him was. It turns out that it was —according to John— this famous Japanese archeologist (didn’t tell his name) who has made a career out of studying the Peruvian whistles, and that’s when John put 2 and 2 together: He concluded that the Japanese guy had brought along some of those whistles to test them inside the chamber, and the ‘resonance’ of the stone had somehow produced an effect that left an imprint long after he had finished the experiment. An imprint that ended up affecting him!

So I don’t know Greg, but maybe you should get your hands on some of those whistles, and test them inside the Integratron or something!

Later!

RPJ

As of now, all 1 to 2 and 2 to 3 pm Pacific MWF slots are open beginning May 3rd.

Also, if you could spare a review copy of Wake Up Down There I’d be grateful. I’d be happy to reciprocate with one or more of my books.

Best

Kevin Barrett
POB 221
Lone Rock, WI 53556

I have a question I’d like to ask you about a past Radio Misterioso show, but I’d prefer not to post this question publicly. Nothing weird – it’s about a subject you discussed that I’ve never seen anything written about online or in print before. I tried emailing your radiomisterioso address, but my email couldn’t be delivered. Is there another way I can email you with my question?

Thanks Greg!