Richard Sarradet: Spirit and Spies

Richard was live in the studio for the second time on November 6th. We share a lot of history and a lot of it came out in the course of the show. He is one of those people in the background of UFO studies that keeps a low profile and has a lot of sharp insights.

We started with a discussion about our spiritual paths, or at least how it has affected how he look at the anomalous. This led into a discourse about how we may be co-creating our reality and more relevant to this program, how we may be more creative in our experiences with the paranormal than we think. There was also a long reminisce about our late friend and abduction researcher Karla Turner.

Richard and I have also shared some of the same experiences with intelligence people from various government agencies (or claiming to be) and this shaped our opinions about what may be going on with the UFO subject and how the conversation about it is controlled. The people who talked to us cautioned us to be careful about what we accepted as truth, but to listen to everything. Instead of frightening us into catatonia, this advice seemed liberating. We also bought up moon anomalies and possible censorship of photos.

This was a rare show with many insights that haven’t come out in other interviews. I must apologize for all the times I interrupted Richard as he jogged my memory and imagination, but he’s good at that.

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26 Responses to Richard Sarradet: Spirit and Spies

  1. Starfish says:

    Hi Mr Greg Bishop,

    Excellent show and enjoyed the deep thinking on these strange topics of high strangeness etc. look forward to your next book:)

    Also Mr Richard Sarradet a excellent researcher and found the show full of rich material 🙂 Maybe if possible you might re-play a Dr Karla Turner’s or Mr Michael Younger if have one ? interview one day?


  2. Very thankful for the shout out during the show Greg. Richard is one of those guests I could listen to again again; he has the right balance of humor and insightfulness —and yes, he also has a very pleasant voice 😉

    What are the ‘elephants in the room’ in modern Ufology? I can think of several: Reptilians is a hot topic among experiencers, but I don’t think they’ve been embraced by the more prominent researchers —I’ve never head uncle Stan talk about them, for instance!— ditto with other peripheral cases like the BEKs (black eyed kids) or even older stuff like cases where UFOs and Bigfoot intersect —you wanna be a troll in Cryptomundo? comment that Bigfoot is a paranormal entity or an ET pet. Just ask Nick! 😛

    It could be that we are co-creators of the UFO phenomenon because these non-human intelligences make use of the human subconscious as a suitable interface of communication. That’s something I mused about a little recently, inspired by the movie A.I., and the scene where David —the little robotic child who wants to become “a real life boy”— finally finds himself at the end of his quest of finding the Blue Fairy, which is nothing but a projection extracted from his own mind so that the other super-advanced AIs can interact with him without the risk of frightening him. Is the Blue Fairy a mere hologram? something more complex like the simulacra spawned by a technology similar to the Star Trek’s holodeck, where projections convert energy into matter? or is it only an image inserted in David’s artificial mind? in the end this is rather irrelevant: it is as real as needed from David’s perspective, in order to serve its purpose.

    Finally, I just wanted to say that I really hope you and Richard agree to write a book about this Mike Younger character. That really sounds like a story that could really connect with people that are not even that interested in Fortean phenomena; perhaps such a story would have been disregarded 10 or 15 years ago, but in the turbulent years we live in, I think its time has come.

    • Greg says:

      Hey RPJ,

      I think the elephant in the room is the willful ignorance of much of the UFO research community and fanbase to consider that there is no real proof for the ETH. As you point out, the UFO and cryptozoo people are for the most part dogma-bound by things that routinely refute a dogmatic approach.

      I hesitate to give the UFO phenomenon and what may be responsible for it more credit than may be due, although I leave that possibility wide open. That might be a topic for a future show! Perhaps WE create the matrix of spaceships and aliens in order to help ourselves better handle the interaction. I sometimes think of the phenomenon as very intelligent yet extremely stupid in many ways from our point of view, and that while it has the wisdom of the ages at its disposal, it cannot directly interface with us and bumbles around with us as we do with it.

      • “I sometimes think of the phenomenon as very intelligent yet extremely stupid in many ways from our point of view, and that while it has the wisdom of the ages at its disposal, it cannot directly interface with us and bumbles around with us as we do with it.”

        Good point. Although I’m sure dogs have a pretty low opinion on us humans, seeing how we are not even capable of licking our own balls 😛

        • James says:

          Perhaps it is just the undeveloped parts of our minds/consciousness/perception/whatever you want to call it which is unable to make proper sense of the phenomena.

          I often wonder how the same type of experiences encountered in the UFO phenomenon would be interpreted, or even how the experience itself would play out, for one who is heavily trained in various forms of mystical systems.

          I’m still new to delving into this subject on a deeper level, but it seems to me that these experiences seem to happen to people with no such background, while perhaps it tends to lead them into the same waters.

          What would a contactee or abduction scenario play out like for one whose mind has long been trained skillfully in advanced areas of meditation, and beyond?

          As for beyond, many of these systems naturally induce “contact” with “beings” who carry very similar messages and appearances, although the experiencer is trained to both expect these encounters and make sense of them on various levels.

          Conversely, what shape would this same type of encounter take if induced in someone without any knowledge of it, and without any training of the mind to make sense of it?

          • James says:

            As an aside to my above comment, as I research more into this phenomenon I am continually impressed by how mystical ideas keep appearing in the thoughts expressed by UFO(and etc) researchers, commentators and experiencers.

            One such recent example is the topic of “headlessness”. Jeff Kripal discusses this in a recent interview with Whitley Strieber on his podcast, Dreamland. I happened to listen to this podcast after starting to read Strieber’s Communion (hey, like I said, I’m new to this..) and recalled one line from the book which had stood out to me before and didn’t seem to fit in with what followed. This is when Strieber is first describing the being who presents visions of his worst fears.

            “It’s like a little man with a hood on or something. It looks almost like this- y’know, there’s no head…”

            One of the primary rituals used to invoke an encounter with one’s higher self in some magickal systems is called “The Bornless Ritual” which calls upon the “Bornless One.”

            In the original manuscript of this ritual, the title of this “entity” is Akephalon, which translates literally to “headless”

            In his book Cosmic Trigger, Robert Anton Wilson recounts how he listened to a tape-recording of The Bornless Ritual while on LSD, and as most of you are aware, experienced a contactee-like scenario

          • James says:

            And not to keep a conversation with myself going, but I keep thinking of aspects that relate to this line of thought.

            Some believe mystical and yogic practices are geared towards reaching a way to release natural psychedelic chemicals in the brain, such as DMT. You all have probably heard about recent studies related to DMT and alien abduction experiences, and there’s plenty of trip stories about people who have had these experiences while under the effects of DMT.

            There’s more to be said on that topic, but just wanted to add it to the mix.

          • Hey James,

            Re. your speculation on how a person well versed in mystical lore would interpret a contact-like experience, it reminds me of the alleged encounter between Aleister Crowley and Lam. this dwarvish entity that from a modern perspective has a strong resemblance with a Gray alien.

            Conversely, I often keep coming to Terence Mckenna’s shamanic approach to alien encounters —like Whitley Strieber said on that interview with Jeff, we *do* seem to be in the middle of a shamanic avalanche of sorts— to medicine men of ‘primitive’ cultures communicating —or rather, COMMUNING— with non-human intelligences is no biggie 😉

            PS: I would recommend that you get a copy of Micah Hanks ‘Magic, Mysticism & the Molecule’, I think you would find it of interest.

          • James says:

            Thanks for the recommendation RPJ. It seems like I’ve come across that book title recently but I don’t think I’ve added to my list yet. I’ll definitely put it on there now. So many books..

            There is much controversey surrounding LAM and Crowley’s experience with whatever LAM is/was. I’ve actually made a post addressing this here before, and I’ll just link to that rather than expound here:

            When all is said and done, its very possible that Crowley did perceive LAM as presented, but it must be remembered that this is speculation and theory only- not that it makes things any less interesting.

            Still, there is much said about LAM which seems to be definitely incorrect. Then again, saying anything is definitely incorrect based upon what Crowley has written about himself isn’t exactly cut and dry.

            I’ll check out that Terence Mckenna video. I also found that segment of the interview intriguing and I suppose what I was getting at is exactly that- its “no biggie” for shamans of all makes a models, so long as they are proficiently advanced and skilled, and it seems to be something that has always been built into us and experienced in very different, but also very similar ways

          • James says:

            Reading through my linked comments on LAM, its a bit confused sounding unless you’re familiar with the story/terminology.

            Basically, Crowley made that drawing of LAM and the drawing was used in an art showing once. Supposedly he told an acquaintance, who was disgusted with the drawing, that it was a drawing of his “guru.” And that is the only thing Crowley has actually said about what LAM is, and even that is questionable since Crowley was most likely playing with his choice of phrase.

            A lot of people, including Robert Anton Wilson, have said that LAM is Crowley’s Holy Guardian Angel (Aiwass). However, Crowley himself never stated this and in fact, his written description of Aiwass is a that of an Arabic man, from long ago. Even this was just his impression, as Crowley states he never actually saw Aiwass, who was always behind him and out of sight.

            And now is the point where I remember I’m getting too far away from the topic at hand 😉

  3. James says:

    One of the most thought provoking shows I’ve heard in a while. Really enjoyed Richard’s comments on his mystical experience(s).

  4. Ricky Poole says:

    Fantastic show guys, you two bring a lot to the table. I really enjoyed both parts of that discussion but I hope there will be a follow up show soon where that period in Ufological history you were both so involved in can explored further.

    Ufology as we know it, is most certainly theater. I’m reminded of something I wrote last year about this time. “The UFO community and related organizations are stages on which sock-puppets act out carefully crafted plays designed to mold opinion and control the perception of activities involving the development and weaponization of new technologies.” I think this may be the central truth underlying much of what we think we know about UFOs, their occupants, and their points of origin.

    • Greg says:


      Thanks for listening and for the comments. I agree with you to a point. UFO study is certainly a sort of theater as you say, but I think that the influence of the intelligence and MIComplex is not as great we might think, and is probably not as much as it once was. This is only my opinion of course. There is also a case to be made for the co-creation of the myth by UFO researchers and the power structure. Keith Thompson’s Angels and Aliens is a classic book examining the mythological aspects of UFO study and experience, and although I recall little of the text, I remember it had a profound influence on my thinking in the 1990s when I was re-introducing myself to the subject.

      Maybe you can chime in for awhile by phone when Richard appears next time. I think that would be enlightening.

  5. Ricky Poole says:

    The influence of intelligence agencies on UFO groups goes back to their inception, as you know. Vallee’s Messenger’s of Deception that you mentioned on air, is a good examination of just some of what went on. You have wonder who is playing in the sandbox today. We have an equally wide variety of characters and ideas on the stage as they did then, who seem to be trying to “guide the conversation” of popular Ufology. But maybe you’re right, maybe they have largely abandoned using the UFO community as a training ground and asset pool or however they think about it, but the seeds that were planted continue to grow and shape perceptions. I’m not that sure of anything about the whole UFO business, but one thing that does seem certain. It is a lot more complicated than just people seeing lights in the sky, as your show often highlights. I haven’t read Angels and Aliens, I’ll have to look for it. Thank you for the invite Greg, I’ll try to do that next time Rich is on.

  6. Sagacious says:

    I never realized you had so much contact with Karla Turner. I used to think of here as a paranoiac. This discussion makes me reconsider that she may really have been the victim of strange goings-on. Also, that high-pitched sound Richard mentions wasn’t in her imagination.

    • Ricky Poole says:

      Listening to the show has caused me to go back and listen to the various Karla Turner videos that are available on youTube again. In reality, there aren’t that many. A couple of conference lectures and an Art Bell appearance. She comes across as intelligent, organized, and a perfectly normal individual. Greg’s interview with her in Wake Up Down There! is a must read.

  7. Ricky Poole says:

    On the subject of “co-creation” of paranormal/UFO experiences. Imagine a being with a non-4D (3D plus Time) mind attempting to communicate or simply interact with a creature that has a 4 D mind like ourselves. Our 4D brain/mind systems would still only be able to render the communication or interaction using the circuitry and symbols available to it which would seem to naturally vary to some degree from human being to human being. This would seem to provide a mechanism for both the variety of paranormal experience but its high strangeness as well. Some of these experiences could be induced by beings with non-4D minds (5D, 10D?) who are “modulating” (so to speak) a 4D medium with their 5D signal in an attempt at communication. Something comes across but how much of the original signal remains? Of course it begs the question, “Why go through so much trouble?” to communicate or interact with something so different than themselves?

  8. An excellent show. I suspect that consciousness might always play a role, and necessarily so, in generating the imagery of UFOs. Dr. Jeffery Kripal suggests that the so-called paranormal cannot manifest except through the filters of cultural and indeed pop cultural memes and imagery. Speaking of Jacques Vallee, in case you missed his 22 November talk in Brussels earlier this week at the Tedx (Technology-Entertainment-Design-x) “Deep Future” conference, where he spoke of information science (by which we might understand the synchronicity phenomenon) and its role in the possible reconciliation of Einsteinian Relativity and quantum physics in the next 50 years of physics, I have uploaded the video of Vallee’s address at my blog: He gave the following intriguing title to his talk: “A Theory of Everything (else): Another Physics for 2061?” Although he did not mention UFOs at the conference, his books have made the link between information science (recall his associative universe model) and UFOs.

    Again, congratulations on an excellent show.

    Dr. Maxim Kammerer

    • Greg says:

      Dr. Kammerer,

      Thank you for the link. One of my favorite recent quotes from Vallee is “What we are finding is that the Universe appears to be a subset of something else.”

      I am going to have you on the show soon to discuss all of this!

      • Mr. Bishop,

        It is precisely the reality of which this universe seems to be a subset that forms the center of my (presently unpublished) research manuscript on Vallee’s scientific theories. The UFO phenomenon may similarly be a distracting subset of something far more interesting. I would be happy to discuss this mutual interest of ours at your convenience.





  10. Pete says:

    Interesting comment, Red Pill – I wonder how Ron Jeremy’s dogs regard him?

    At any rate, Greg, I thought I heard/read that Richard knew Younger’s wife – any chance of following up with her if she’s still around? She might have some interesting insights on the matter.

  11. Bob Bobson says:

    Had the makings of a great interview. Too bad Bishop had too much caffeine before the show: Sarradet, two words; Bishop, twenty words.

  12. Michael says:

    The weird thing about spies is they keep a low profile, and come up with subjects that are in depth backgrounds relevant to intelligence agencies of the government; like the CIA. They are conspiracy contactees with demonic disclosures, and it’s all hidden from the untamed abnormal maniacs that are outside secret societies cover-ups, and truths.

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